LinearGreece (General)
by Royce Christian 
, Earth, Monday, December 08, 2008, 06:07
As many of you had probably heard, Greece has erupted into riots after the police shot and killed a young Anarchist.
As I said in another forum, my initial, emotional reaction leaps into support, particularly as the Anarchists have the balls to combat the police openly. I read somewhere that the Anarchists attacked a police station in order to free those arrested by police earlier, and this to me is something admirable.
I'm generally not sure how I feel about the whole thing based on its violence and whether innocents have been harmed. Though, I can understand it in the sense that it's raising the stakes. It's sort of saying, 'You harmed us, so we're taking the fight to you.' But I dunno.
Thoughts?
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Monday, December 08, 2008, 06:10 @ Royce Christian
Better yet, if Deadeye's still around I'd love for him to give us his insider account.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
ok so im not deadeye but i think that the crew freeing their freinds is acctuly doing somthing and knew what they were doing so they had to had been expecting some kind of retaliation weahter they wanted it or not im sorry that peaple have to die but its a liveing breathing example of whats wrong with goverment if thats how their wiling to treat there pealpe than id be fed up too and ready for a fight as well if the police didnt like their anarchest attemps they need to try and put there "goverment" in place and do somthing by their laws not fucking shoot peaple out for passion
Greece
by Jawn Disease , Notre-Dame-de-Grace, Montreal, Quebec, Monday, December 08, 2008, 11:16 @ sammy
Dude, punctuation.
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All the kids at the G8 just aching to get their heads smashed in by riot cops get exactly what they deserve because they're too fucking stupid to show up and bomb the Bilderburg Group.
Greece
by Jawn Disease , Notre-Dame-de-Grace, Montreal, Quebec, Monday, December 08, 2008, 11:24 @ Royce Christian
Fucking assholes are trashing and looting local stores... As if that's going to help... Other than that, beating the shit out of cops is always a good thing
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All the kids at the G8 just aching to get their heads smashed in by riot cops get exactly what they deserve because they're too fucking stupid to show up and bomb the Bilderburg Group.
Greece
I'm not clued up on the specifics of the event.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of releasing friends from government abduction, I don't believe that violence is a productive way to go.
Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.
If you attack an armed facility, you do so with the knowledge that you will be shot at, and I would be hesitant to label the victims martyrs.
It depends a great deal for me, on the nature of the force being used to bust out the friend.
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"I support the separation of Humanity and the State"
Greece
Mhmm, lets see.
First things first.
Before I jump into the events, I have to paint the whole picture.
There has been a feud between the police and anarchist groups since the fall of the greek dictatorship. Whenever there's a protest, you'll see anarchists setting up roadblocks, going head to head with the riot police, attacking banks, cameras etc. In 1985, a similar incident took place. A police officer shot dead a 15 year old anarchist, with a well aimed shot in the head. He was later released from all charges, a decision which erupted similar riots.
Traditionally, the athenian district of Eksarxeia was an anarchist headquarter. Mostly due to its historical role in past events, against the military dictatoship and many more. For that reason, the past, say, 10 years, it has been a target for police forces. It is now, informally, considered to be an anarchist asylum where no cop can enter under the watchful eye of our comrades there. For that reason, even the local police station of Eksarxeia has instructed its patrol cars to avoid by all costs certain areas that are literally under anarchist control.
Sometimes, cops managed to slip in for the sole purpose to harass some anarchist hangouts. These "challenges" would cause small scale wars in Eksarxeia district, with riot police divisions, supposedly guarding banks, entering an "anti-authoritarian area" just to confront scattered anarchists. It was typical once a week to have a street fight. Lately, this situation was being steadily intensified. On one hand, reporters would often mention that this police-free area had to be infringed, on the other hand, police officers with far right-wing beliefs were eager to provoke trouble, fueling the fire.
What I'm trying to say is, we all knew it would come down to this.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
And now, to describe what is "this".
A patrol car entered Eksarxeia, last Saturday night.
Like I said, they're instructed to remain in a certain pre-defined route, to avoid anarchist confrontations. (cop cars usually become a moving target for any kind of projectile when they drive by) These two cops are known from past events to challenge anarchists in the district, so this Saturday, they broke in. They bumped into a small group of underaged, some say anarchists, some say kids that were having their typical night-out. It matters not.
The cops were looking for trouble, so the moment they saw the kids, they assumed they were anarchists as it is a popular destination for people of such beliefs, even for entertainment purposes. They provoked those children, while in the cop car and were ousted for being bullies. The cops drove away, but came back on foot a few minutes later to settle the score. They exchanged words, nothing else but words. This is confirmed by numerous eye-witnesses, while mass media and the cops themselves were spreading, unsurprisingly, that the cops were attacked by a large group of enraged and armed anarchists. In the middle of the quarrel, one of the two cops pulled out his pistol and shot a kid dead with two shots, one in the belly and the second one in his heart. They both calmly walked away to their patrol car.
The quarrel was of such a volume, that the incident was filmed by a two kids in a balcony. I uploaded it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1wrDbw9KeQ and an edited version with more light, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvgUQcYgrn0
You cant clearly see the whole incident, but the two cops are standing alone in the street and there is no fight. Only a car alarm.
The cop speaks some final words, something that would be roughly translated as, "I'll show you what", and fires two shots. They can both be seen walking away.
The incident was first reported in the athenian indymedia, which is typically controlled by anarchists. The news were spread rapidly, causing spontaneous riots all over Greece.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
Right now, everyone is enraged. Not only anarchists but every Greek with minimal common sense. A kid was executed for talking back to a cop. It was not out of the blue, it was the product of an ongoing repression that has centered its efforts in the district of Eksarxeia.
Anarchists went on a rampage, myself included. We havent slept many hours, I just came back to rest a bit, wash the tear gas off my face and clothes, sleep a few hours perhaps, before I return to defend the roadblocks.
Excuse me for being incoherent, like I said, I'm tired, furious and my face is burning. I suppose you've been told a million lies, so I end this post with a list of anarchist targets, which are strictly political.
-The main target in EVERY Greek city and each district, are the police stations. I have lost count in how many areas they have been bombarded by rocks and molotov cocktails. Every cop in Greece should live in fear the following days to balance their arrogance with fear.
-Banks are the next best target. For a million reasons I need not explain in an anarchist forum.
-Cop cars. Luxurious cars. Civilian cars that belong to cops. (we know their plate numbers), they all made good barricades.
-Every grand store, of any type. Only the big money holders.
-Cameras.
I know it has been reported that small neighbourhood stores have been looted. Its true to some extent. Its quite usual for undercover cops to damage such types of property. Its also usual for hooligans to rush into riots. We bumped into a few of both kinds and chased them with sticks.
I can only speak for what I personally saw. And I saw extremely careful anarchists in what they were smashing and in a manner to avoid the lightest damage on parked cars . However, I can't deny the fact that there are exceptions.
Ask questions if you like, my mind is too much in a storm right now for accurate descriptions, especially while its still happening.
Peace.
Not.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
This is interesting. I should probably start reading papers again, I hadn't even heard of it till I logged in here today.
It's good to see in a way how widespread it is, that greek citizens won't tolerate attacks from police.
When innocent civilians are gunned down by cops in the UK, hardly anyone bats an eyelid, most people try to justify it
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"I support the separation of Humanity and the State"
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Monday, December 08, 2008, 21:01 @ Lostsocks
When innocent civilians are gunned down by cops in the UK, hardly anyone bats an eyelid, most people try to justify it
That's the thing that's impressed me. People seem to actually give a damn.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Monday, December 08, 2008, 20:59 @ Deadeye
No questions for the moment from me, but look after yourself.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Monday, December 08, 2008, 22:01 @ Royce Christian
edited by Royce Christian, Monday, December 08, 2008, 22:23
Actually, Deadeye.
If you get time, would you be able to provide me some kind of translation for this youtube video. My Greek is nowhere near good enough to translate that myself.
Someone on the Forums of the LibertarianLeft are asking for a translation. If you can provide it, I'll post the translation both on my blog and over there. It seems these people who don't fit the description of 'bomb throwing Anarchist' (as portrayed in the media) are witnesses whose report conflicts with the mainstream media.
EDIT: I ask you because not only are you caught up in the whole thing, but you speak fluent Greek. 
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
I don't quite understand why Greece is the big news. All eyes should be on Iceland! There are actually people smashing banks over there, and anti-government protests. And Iceland used to be anarchist, and nobody would bother invaded as well, so I'd say it's more likely for something big to happen up there.
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Monday, December 08, 2008, 20:57 @ Zazaban
You actually just reminded me.
Though I haven't heard much news from Iceland (I've gotten distracted and stopped following it) a week or so ago, I remember there being mass protests. I was thinking that it might be possible to find someone there who's sympathetic to our ideas to help distribute Anarchist material to these people.
Brad Spangler suggested I write up a marketing plan as a guide. I have done so, though, admittedly, it's really bad and done by hand. I've a possible contact email that could help me out. Is there any interest from anyone here in helping with this? Do we know anyone else that could help us out? Does anyone know any sympathetic Icelanders? Icelandic forums?
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
I have a geologist friend who may be able to put me in contact with an Icelander.
An Icelander sympathetic to anarchy may be much harder.
I'll keep an ear to the ground.
Again, amazed that I missed the news in Iceland. They are technically only a short flight away from the UK.
We're such bloody Islanders here, anything happens over the border and it passes us by
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"I support the separation of Humanity and the State"
Greece
This video contains testimonies of some of the many eye-witnesses.
Here goes.
1st witness
-We saw them at some point, with guns in their hands walking down the street.
-Both of them?
-Both
-And? Where did they stop?
-Here, right here. They started cussing here, "Come here punks, come and settle this". Some kids approached.
2nd witness
-During this verbal fight, we saw no objects being thrown, suddenly one of them pulls out his gun and opens fire, straight ahead. We took a careful look and noticed someone on the ground, being dragged away by his friends, probably in fear that he would shoot again. Anyway, this is what happened, the officers were just standing still and then walked away. They turned away and left, on foot.
3rd witness
I saw the extension of his arms, I saw him aiming. The extension of his arms, not the position of his body. I was behind him. And he aimed. He aimed towards the other end of the street, towards that group.
4th witness
They were exchanging words. It was intense. Suddenly, without any other intervention, the patrol car abruptly departs and some time later the officers return. They stood in front of the kids and gunshots were heard. One of the kids, fell.
1st witness - resumed.
-3 shots?
-3 shots because he didnt hit him at first. This man wanted to kill. Simple as that.
5th witness
-We heard two bangs. I immediately understood it was gunfire from the sound of the very first shot. I heard the second shot, followed by a scream and a kid falling to the ground. We headed towards the kid, we dragged him away.
-What did the police do?
-The police turned their backs, as if nothing had happened, and left. We lifted his shirt, he was bleeding. We gave him CPR, the ambulance was late.
6th witness
-I saw the patrol car between Zoodoxou Pigis street and Tzavela street, it left but a minute later, the two drivers came back. They were both armed and they shot that kid, without a reason.
-Did you see them aiming?
-Yes, they were aiming.
-They didnt shoot up to intimidate?
-No, they shot the kids that were standing there.
-Did they see the kid falling dead?
-Yes, someone shouted that the kid was wounded, but they turned and left.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
Those testimonies are a bit useless without knowing what the cops themselves testified.
They claimed they were attacked by a group of 30 hooded anarchists, with rocks, sticks and molotof cocktails, while in the car. They stepped on the gas to evade them, but later returned to arrest them. They were attacked once more and while in self defense, they threw a flashbang grenade, fired two shots in the sky to intimidate the attackers and one in the ground. The last one hit the ground but ricocheted.
They've been flipping their story until today. Their first two lawyers have already retired from their case, for ethical reasons. The ballistic examination was completed today. The bullet remained inside the body and it indicated that it came from a higher level (the pistol) to a lower level (the victim's body). If it was indeed a ricochet, the bullet would have entered from a lower level (the street) to a higher, the point of entry in the body.
At first, all media adopted the cop's case, spreading similar news worldwide.
Now, they talk about murder in cold blood.
Greeks cooperating with local anarchist groups are taking over greek embassies, all over Europe. Berlin, Hague, London and more that I'm not aware of.
Now, we're just making sure there wont be "one minute silence" goodbyes before we return to our daily routine. Alex will have the loudest and most fiery farewell.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Tuesday, December 09, 2008, 22:00 @ Deadeye
Thanks, Deadeye. I greatly appreciate it.
I've compiled what information I have on my blog.
If you have any more information about what's going on, want to provide a first hand account etc. Please keep us up-to-date.
And if I come up with more questions, I won't hesitate to ask.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 01:40 @ Royce Christian
Deadeye,
I have yet more questions regarding the situation in Greece. The impending General Strike called by the two main unions, what is the Anarchist view of this? Are they in support of the unions?
As I understand it the unions are pushing for the government to spend more as a result of the global financial crisis. How do this flow with the Anarchists, particularly as the money the government is being urged to spend isn't their money (the whole taxation is theft deal). I'm curious as these seem to be 'state socialists' taking advantage of the situation.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
Sorry for the late response.
The anarchist view regarding the strikes is generally positive, even though we hold little trust in those unions.
Without doubt, we have something more than just another riot going on.
It seems that all of our grudges found a way out through the murder of young Alex. There was a general discomfort among Greeks the past few years, partially because of the economic crisis, but it goes beyond that. The point is, the anarchists were brave enough to step up when the opportunity was given and now many more are following, regardless of political beliefs.
Our main concern focuses on the future of this outbreak. We all agree that it must not be allowed to die out. A way to preserve the flame is to channel this outbreak into our long demanded desires in order to transform it into a social movement, in which we will remain united not only against police brutality but against every aspect and value of the modern Greek society.
For that reason, we gladly support general strikes, preferably without expiration dates. It is also time to connect our outbreak with demands concerning the educational section. Students and pupils are under siege from the new educational measures and they will willingly join. After all, they've always been the core of anything revolutionary in Greece.
The first difficult stage has been completed, we have risen up. Inevitably, I think we will settle down sooner or later, but lets earn what we can while its still time. The state is in fear and it might be willing to exchange our content with the rope that it will be hung from tomorrow.
We'll see.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
Deadeye, i was at the first anual Los Angeles Anarchist Bookfair this weekend and every time the topic of Greece came up your stuggle received a large round of aplause and admiration, and there was much literature and many posters being distributed to bring attention to your fight, the whole world is watching!
keep safe out there.
Greece
keep safe deadeye!
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Friday, December 12, 2008, 23:09 @ Deadeye
edited by Royce Christian, Saturday, December 13, 2008, 00:42
Deadeye,
I've heard reports from indymedia and other Anarchist blogs out there that there has been reports of fascist and nazi's coming out in support for the police.
http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/2008/12/11/10-1418-25-police-stations-besieged-the-m...
http://garizo.blogspot.com/2008/12/neo-fascists-side-by-side-with-police.html
Can you confirm this? Maybe provide photos, more evidence, videos?
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Deadeye,
I've heard reports from indymedia and other Anarchist blogs out there that there has been reports of fascist and nazi's coming out in support for the police.
http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/2008/12/11/10-1418-25-police-stations-besieged-the-m...
http://garizo.blogspot.com/2008/12/neo-fascists-side-by-side-with-police.html
This isn't going to make anyone like the police. This could be the thing to tip people over the edge.
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Saturday, December 13, 2008, 00:47 @ Zazaban
Well, you'd think but then there are things like the Cronulla 'Race Riots' in 2005 were not "a spontaneous response by Australian's to the violence of Leganese immigrants," but were in fact encouraged and induced by right-wing, conservative and neo-nazi hate groups. Then there events in Russian where nationalist organisations have murdered left-wing activists with little more than a few public statements of 'outrage' and maybe a minute silence.
Though I suppose there's a certain apathy out here in the colonies and the Greeks do seem to have the spirit of rebellion in them.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
That is true.
There is a strong bond between Greek police forces and neo-nazi groups, mainly the one that goes by the name "Golden Dawn". Their cooperation has been confirmed on both physical and informational level.
An example from a past event, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g1VdrYBECs
The murderer cop is said to be an ex member of Golden Dawn himself, but we're on hold for a confirmation.
Your first link depicts a parastate scum, possibly a Golden Dawn-er.
In the second link, we see cops in uniforms and undercover cops.
All faces have been recognized.
Notice that one of them is hooded, resembling an anarchist and another one is holding a stick. I've explained previously how provocateurs attack non-political targets, mostly small stores and random cars, in order to damage the public support that favours us. We've chased away some, but enough damage has been done to arm reporters with venom.
In the city of Patra, around 600 undercover cops, neonazis and zealous government supporters unsuccessfully attempted to disperse a manifestation of around 5000. A protester was stabbed. Various incidents of violence from parastate groups have been confirmed, outside occupied universities throwing rocks, cars attempting to run down protesters etc. We're expecting more.
If more evidence comes up, I'll share it.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Sunday, December 14, 2008, 21:28 @ Deadeye
It's being reported that there is peace in the streets. I hope you'll take this moment to rest up, Deadeye. It seems you've been doing a lot, between participating and answering my questions.
I'm not sure how true this is, but one of the blogs which I provided earlier is also reporting the far-right history of one of those cops. Not sure if that could be of use in anyway.
I'd hope you keep us posted with any updates about the situation, plans, or whatever. I've been doing my best to keep track of what has been happening and spread the information.
EDIT: God, I'm sorry to do this to you again, but do you have any reports regarding violence by the police and pro-state forces against the demonstrators? I read of a unregistered car running into 2 protesters and a 13 year old girl was arrested in some brutal fashion while Journalists watching were beaten for recording it.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
Right, the first wave of rage is gone. I'd rather say it matured.
There's still much protesting going on a nationwide level, almost on a daily basis in various cities. Solidarity marches and embassy takeovers have been reported in Europe too. Things have somewhat cooled down though. There's a lot of quiet demonstrations, mostly lead by pupils that block cop station entrances. Schools and universities have been taken over. Various radio stations are being occupied for about 30 minutes by anarchists to broadcast the latest facts against mass media propaganda. A couple of city halls have also been taken over although I dont know if they're still under popular control.
I believe they are.
I already mentioned the rumours that connect the cop with right wing extremists, Golden Dawn-ers. This information is still unconfmired and on some points it looks fallible. For instance, concerning the cop's family. It is still under investigation, dont rush into publishing it yet.
Concerning the news that you missed, I'll try to be brief as I don't know what might interest you and what might not.
The child was buried last Tuesday and the crowd was beyond numbers. A riot police division was there, watching over from a safe distance. According to witnesses, motorcycle cops (the so called, Z-squads) appeared in the funeral and provoked bystanders with verbal attacks, such as, "Where's Alex?", "This is how its going to be from now on, we'll be gunning you down", etc. They were repelled by the crowd. At that point 3 more hidden riot squad divisions popped out of nowhere and choked the funeral in tear gas.
Later, in the same district where the funeral took place, riots broke out. A Z-cop was caught on tape firing with his pistol to intimidate the crowd. About 16 empty shells were collected from the ground.
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=937475
http://www.tvxs.gr/v1308
More pistol waving by cops, this time riot policemen, were brought to surface the same day, one with a gun and another one mocking as if he held a gun. They were taken last Sunday.
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=936420
The reporter that took the pictures was later fired by his newspaper editor!
The killer cop appeared on court for his first plea a couple of days ago. His two first lawyers withdrew from his case for ethical reasons. According to unconfirmed information that leaked, they retired because the cop kept flipping his story. His new lawyer is a notorious one, Mr A.Kougias. Along with his lawyer, they wrote his plea, which leaked to news media. It holds an aggressive stance against the murdered boy, claiming that he was a violent teen who kept being expelled from school, in an attempt to justify the killing. His school administration refuted these accusations hours later. The lawyer's office was attacked a day later, from an unknown (yeah right) group.
Reports about violent attacks against protesters are tons and we're expecting more. Yes, a car tried to run over some kids protesting, I think I briefly mentioned that earlier. Someone noticed the car plates and reported them. The answer was, they're not registered - which means they were feds. The brutal arrest you described also took place.
I can't write down all incidents. There's a blog that keeps track of them in english. I gave it a look and it looks pretty solid. http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/
I'll keep in touch though, I'm not trying to tell anyone to bug off. 
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
One more, in Greek though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCfOMzsaTG0
During a street fight, a riot policeman says: I should let the Golden Dawners* loose to go get them!
*Golden Dawn is the name of a Greek neonazi organization with strong ties with the Greek police.
-EDIT- I just noticed you already knew about that blog. Silly me.
By the way, did Anna Quist post some bullshit about brown cards again in this topic or I've inhaled too much tear gas? I don't see her post anymore.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Friday, December 19, 2008, 20:24 @ Deadeye
edited by Royce Christian, Friday, December 19, 2008, 22:46
Hey Deadeye, I've come mining for information again. I'll put whatever I can on my blog in the hope of doing something, even though it is small, to counter the current attempts in the media to spread propaganda.
Would you be able to provide information on the latest events in Greece? Updates about what is planned, what is going on, the current atmosphere. Anything you that you can volunteer will be good.
Infoshop has reported that one of the Greek Unions has been taken over by the workers in Syndicalist fashion. What can you say about this?
It's again written that the greek government has more or less handed the Polytechnic to the protesters. How long do you think this will last?
Also could you provide some insight into the plans and thoughts of the Greek Anarchists? The media is going to town attacking the violence of the protests. The details are being forgotten and the reports generally follow the following line,
violent riots in Greece > lots of damage > young boy died (a position that doesn't take the side of the cops or say that the boy was a victim) > "self described" Anarchists taken to the streets > clashes with police > Anarchists are violent evil thugs etc etc.
It's frustrating trying to argue against all this and especially the arguments from certain people around the place who still argue, 'the Anarchists there aren't Anarchists because the boy attacked the police with rocks and was shot' or even the statist version, 'What the fuck are they protesting for? The boy attacked the police and they shot him.' Internationally there seems to be a lot of them and it makes me angry when I've seen images, heard testimonies and watched videos that contradict most things they've been saying.
I'm also thinking that something else must be under way, as street fighting can only continue for so long before it begins costing you support.
Lastly, what can you make of the following story?
Thanks for your help. Stay safe.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
Back in the forum.
We've almost had another execution in Athens.
A group of pupils were discussing about the upcoming demonstration, in the 18th of December, outside their school in the district of Peristeri. Someone fired two shots, wounding a 17 year old. Fortunately, he was shot at his arm and now he's recuperating. Police came to investigate the crime scene 14 hours later, while they insisted that the shooter fired with an airgun. The projectile that was extracted from the kid's arm proved it was actually a 38 caliber pistol, arousing suspicions about the initial false claims made by the police.
We've had several squats, occupations and take overs.
The major labour union, widely known for being a sell-out, was taken over by anarchists and invites workers to participate in free councils through which workers will coordinate their forces with the general outbreak.
More radio and TV stations are being occupied for a few minutes to broadcast news, straight from the street. Reporters are intensively trying to bring back the "Christmas spirit" and discourage further political action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeWKwQ4iHsE
Three main athenian universities have been occupied that act as the movement's headquarters, where massive discussions take place and issue brochures and newspapers. The Polytechnic school, the Law school and the Economic Studies school. The government never had any control over the students in universities, for several reasons. First and foremost, universities are considered asylums. No policemen, soldiers or any kind of weaponry is allowed inside. However, the last 3 years they try to pass an educational law through which, students' rights will be significantly decreased and occupations like these will be severely weakened.
In other cities, more occupations take place that act similarly, as local headquarters in which future political action is talked through and defined. Universities, city halls and various public buildings.
Almost all universities and most schools have been shutted down by their students. Demonstrations are being constantly programmed.
The Athenian mayor and media lackeys urge everyone to cool down by consuming. Ha!
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
Its not just Greek anarchists that are involved in this. There's a strong left movement in Greece that is participating in a very militant fashion these days.
However, the smashing and burning is more or less over. Banks, surveilance cameras, cop stations and mega-stores have received their message for the time being. The street fighting continues sporadically but only for defensive purposes. I'd say we're mostly focusing on the info-war that has been waged lately by the media and we're trying to provide our version of the facts.
Our demands, for now, are limited in law-enforcement, educational and labour issues. Abolition of riot police, disarmament of police officers, abolition of the latest educational and labour laws that weaken worker and student syndicalism and self organization.
We intend to literally paralyze the state, in a financial and functional level, with constant strikes and demonstrations.
Concerning the article, I'm not aware of some certain incident in which a journalist has been victimized, so I cant name or count them, but its common knowledge that reporters are traditionally greeted with aggressiveness by leftists and anarchists, as they systematically undermine our struggle and openly lie, so its quite possible that the story is true.
Let me remind you how they took sides from day one, adopting the cop's story until eye witnesses stepped up. A TV channel went far enough to edit the video taken from the balcony, depicting the murder. They removed the sound and added their own with sounds of smashing and shouting, in order to back the cop up and his claims of 30 anarchists attacking him.
Anarchists have a motto here: where a cop's nightstick can't reach, a reporter's lie can.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Sunday, December 21, 2008, 18:42 @ Deadeye
You wouldn't happen to know if the a copy of the video edited by the media has been uploaded to youtube?
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
No, but I think this is the link to the video. If you have flv player you'll be able to see it. I'm in an internet cafe right now where I cannot play it.
I hope its the right video.
http://media.megatv.com/pegasus/Multimedia/flv/dokoumento_20081207_20_id18566.flv
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Friday, December 19, 2008, 20:51 @ Deadeye
*Golden Dawn is the name of a Greek neonazi organization with strong ties with the Greek police.
I researched these guys a few days ago so I'd understand what I was talking about. Thing is though, I was lead to believe they had disbanded or something. Been absorbed into another ultra-nationalist organisation.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
Right.
Their connection with police forces disappointed a lot of their members who thought of their organization as anti-state, while rumours were spreading about their leader being working with greek secret agencies and framing members who questioned his position.
A lot of them formed and joined other neo-nazi organizations, rivals of their original one. Some though, openly speak of cooperation with greek policemen in the hunt for anarchists and lefts.
So the Golden Dawn hasn't completely disappeared, even though it has lost a great deal of its former power. Most of its members resigned or joined other groups, but their anti-left/anarchist sentiments might sometimes unite them.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
These riots also precede a General Strike, planned for Wednesday.
This could be potentially very interesting
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"I support the separation of Humanity and the State"
Greece
oh man, just like spain in 1936.
oh man, just like spain in 1936.
To be perfectly honest, it's more reminiscent of France in 2006.
Greece
Your right, it is more similar to that.
Great photos of Greece riots
by Jawn Disease , Notre-Dame-de-Grace, Montreal, Quebec, Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 15:11 @ Royce Christian
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/12/2008_greek_riots.html
Great photos
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All the kids at the G8 just aching to get their heads smashed in by riot cops get exactly what they deserve because they're too fucking stupid to show up and bomb the Bilderburg Group.
Greece
According to Saturday's Independent the incidents have been spreading outside of Greece, with graffiti turning up after Parisian protests referencing the greek riots, and in Sweden as well.
I think it was something to the effect of "flames in Greece, Fire in Paris" and fire-bombs were hurled at a French police station (no damage caused or injuries)
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"I support the separation of Humanity and the State"
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Sunday, December 21, 2008, 18:44 @ Lostsocks
Do you have a source? I can't seem to find much of a reference to it.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
Article in Saturday-just-gone's copy of The Independent, British left-liberal Newspaper.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greek-syndrome-is-catching-as-youth-take...
I don't read it much anymore, but felt a mild need to catch up on some world news and I find it less distasteful than the Times and smaller and more convenient than the Guardian.
lol my newspaper affiliation is too easily bought
edit:
This looks interesting too:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/are-the-greek-riots-a-taste-of-things-to...
Greek Police are calling on international aid as their tear-gas runs out
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"I support the separation of Humanity and the State"
Why did they put "anarchist" in quotation marks?
Greece
what i find really obnoxious is the need to differentiate between the "white left-wing students and young second-generation immigrants". as if they are unable to share a common struggle and a common goal. the point here is to make it seem as if the "white left" where manipulating/ exploiting the real struggle of the poor "immigrants".
recoculous.
Greece
by Jawn Disease , Notre-Dame-de-Grace, Montreal, Quebec, Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 00:01 @ rotten_republic
Well, whatever, the media's the media. They sell a product to a buyer. The buyer is the advertiser and the product is the audience. They are therefore naturally inclined towards wealthier audiences who have more money to buy the things being advertised. The bias is obvious and necessary for business. Less so in the Independent but it's still there.
It's no surprise. What surprises me is just how little its being discussed.
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All the kids at the G8 just aching to get their heads smashed in by riot cops get exactly what they deserve because they're too fucking stupid to show up and bomb the Bilderburg Group.
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 00:15 @ Jawn Disease
Well, whatever, the media's the media. They sell a product to a buyer. The buyer is the advertiser and the product is the audience. They are therefore naturally inclined towards wealthier audiences who have more money to buy the things being advertised. The bias is obvious and necessary for business. Less so in the Independent but it's still there.
Strictly speaking though, those who aren't all that wealthy may make up a far larger market than those with money. It's conceivable that you could make more money marketing your paper to the middle and lower class section of society.
It's no surprise. What surprises me is just how little its being discussed.
Even when it's discussed, however, it's so incredibly inaccurately. There was that other article that attempt to explain what Anarchism is but described it as a 'anachronistic' philosophy "bent on violence." That had the affect of making me both laugh and get very frustrated.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
The best selling paper in the UK is The Sun, a Murdoch owned tabloid rag that finds most of it's readership in the rightwing working class.
They're all as bad as each other,
The content of the article isn't much, but the point of interest for me is the spreading waves of unrest
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"I support the separation of Humanity and the State"
Greece
by Jawn Disease , Notre-Dame-de-Grace, Montreal, Quebec, Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 15:37 @ Lostsocks
Yeah they fuckin sell the papers to right-wing workers but in reality they're selling the right-wing workers to their advertisers.
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All the kids at the G8 just aching to get their heads smashed in by riot cops get exactly what they deserve because they're too fucking stupid to show up and bomb the Bilderburg Group.
Greece
:D
That is a very apt way of describing it
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"I support the separation of Humanity and the State"
It's no surprise. What surprises me is just how little its being discussed.
Even when it's discussed, however, it's so incredibly inaccurately. There was that other article that attempt to explain what Anarchism is but described it as a 'anachronistic' philosophy "bent on violence." That had the affect of making me both laugh and get very frustrated.
That reminds of the time when I tried to explain to my Social Studies teacher that anarchism wasn't just chaos and she laughed at me.
Greece
by Jawn Disease , Notre-Dame-de-Grace, Montreal, Quebec, Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 23:35 @ Zazaban
The important thing is to keep a really straight face until they stop laughing, hold their gaze for a few uncomfortable seconds and then tell them, straight up, that they're fucking ignorant and it makes you sick.
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All the kids at the G8 just aching to get their heads smashed in by riot cops get exactly what they deserve because they're too fucking stupid to show up and bomb the Bilderburg Group.
The important thing is to keep a really straight face until they stop laughing, hold their gaze for a few uncomfortable seconds and then tell them, straight up, that they're fucking ignorant and it makes you sick.
However, I want to pass the course.
I'm probably going to give her the anarchism entry from the EB. She can't argue with that.
Greece
It's also fun to laugh at them when they say their leaders are democratically elected
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"I support the separation of Humanity and the State"
I'd just like to point out that the person who was killed was not an anarchist. In fact, he was planning on becoming a lawyer.
Sorry, It's just that this misinformation has become very widespread, even to the point of people in protests carrying signs identifying him as anarchist.
Greece
Thankfully getting shot by the police is a chaotic act, changing your alignment by 7 points, in this lawyers case, making him a Level 2 Anarchist.
It means he won't be able to level up as a Lawyer anymore, and he'll lose his Charisma bonus, but he'll be able to get into Anarchist Heaven and gets a +2 bonus when fighting Lawful.
Hope that explains everything
edit:
Lysander Spooner was a lawyer, fallen though they are, those in the legal profession are still capable of politically moral acts ;)
Not that getting shot by the police was an anarchist act, or even in any way moral out of context.
But his not being an anarchist doesn't take this case out of anarchist interest par se, or mean that he wasn't in some way related to the political left
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"I support the separation of Humanity and the State"
But his not being an anarchist doesn't take this case out of anarchist interest par se, or mean that he wasn't in some way related to the political left
I just wanted to point that out, because people are claiming that as fact all over the place, I'm worried it will come back to haunt us.
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Monday, December 29, 2008, 01:36 @ Zazaban
The events of Greece are going to come back to haunt us anyway. With respect to Deadeye and the other Greek Anarchists, while there are some incredible, interesting and praiseworthy aspects to the uprising, it's also lead to some that we're going to be explaining and defending against for years to come.
In the critic's eyes, it's already helped reinforce the connection between Anarchism and violence, even if that's already been partially influenced by statist propaganda.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
Greece
The person who was killed was 15 and that is self-explanatory for his political beliefs.
Concerning a lawyer's profession; its not the most anarchism related career one could follow, but it may become purposeful to a point. We've had 100+ arrests and groups of anarchist lawyers, deeply experienced in such cases, have set up a team that offers free legal help and counsel, especially to those who could not afford to hire one.
Being a lawyer is not so ideologically sinister for an anarchist as it may seem. Their purpose is to guide and defend their clients from prosecutions that stem from regulations. The only problem is that they're state-made regulations, laws, and not anarchist rules. All careers though meddle with laws and the state more or less.
Anyway, its not the victim's status that inserts political value to the issue, but the shooter's and his motivation.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
As for the "chaos-talk" that is going to haunt us, I find it obsolete.
Speaking about the broken glass of a store's facade and comparing it with a lost live is hypocritical, to say the least.
As long as your confrontation with the state remains on a political and dialectic level, I fully agree that your response should be similar. However, I dont think there was ever such an intention, from the state's side at least. Our harassment has always been physical and it came to a climax when a state's representative murdered a boy. I'm not sure that leaves a lot of room for negotiations and propaganda.
I'm not sure of anything actually. I'm living it so I can't be as objective as I'd like. What would be your preferred response, people?
P.S.
Clarity, the first link leads to an unsigned text that doesn't look genuine to me.
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Free thinkers are dangerous.
Greece
Clarity, the first link leads to an unsigned text that doesn't look genuine to me.
Thank you for clarifying that.
I for one serious hope it isn't real, it looks like it was written by primitivists. And if the greek revolt is dominated by primmies, then I am dropping my support on the spot.
Greece
by Royce Christian , Earth, Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 02:18 @ Deadeye
edited by Royce Christian, Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 02:24
As for the "chaos-talk" that is going to haunt us, I find it obsolete.
Speaking about the broken glass of a store's facade and comparing it with a lost live is hypocritical, to say the least.As long as your confrontation with the state remains on a political and dialectic level, I fully agree that your response should be similar. However, I dont think there was ever such an intention, from the state's side at least. Our harassment has always been physical and it came to a climax when a state's representative murdered a boy. I'm not sure that leaves a lot of room for negotiations and propaganda.
I agree with you. In the past month I involved with discussions about the issues with a number of people, and attempted to anchor the discussion in the understanding that a boy was murder. That is the key to understanding the violence and the long running skirmishes between the police and Anarchists in the area. Thing is though, people have this strange way of going, "Okay. A boy was shot. Fair enough. But causing massive amounts of damaging and rioting in the streets is pointless/stupid/idiotic," or whatever other description they wish to afford it. Then they cite articles that tally up the total damage and point out that the Anarchists are 'evil' because of x, y, z.
This then, always leads to other arguments like, "those businesses they are destroying are going to be those kids future."
or,
"The boy attacked a cop. It's not surprising he was killed and it's certainly no reason to rioting/whining/complaining about police brutality."
Obviously there are three influences, the first being propaganda, the second a completely lack of knowledge about the circumstances and context and thirdly the mindset of people's general complacency with regards to insubordination to authority figures. It's incredibly hard to argue against these things, however, given that I have been labelled as spreading propaganda on at least two occasions (which I have, more or less, but my reports are accurate and reflect the nature of the situation) and been called 'naive' for defending the Greek Anarchists. I have also been written off a few occasions as some kind of 'leftist, marxist commie' because I dare to suggest that ultra-nationalist elements are working with the police and that the police have been causing damage to discredit the protests. In short, I'm generally, ignored, written off and over looked. It's amazingly difficult to argue with the reports in the mainstream media to which most people take to be gospel.
On a side note, I've been disturbed over the last week how, as it seems that in news articles and the like, the Greek opposition party, state-socialists and communists have been trying to coopt the momentum you guys have built. The politicians are using it so they can achieve power while the state-socialists and the communists are using the situation to put forward their respective statist system.
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"In modern states, the citizen is politically impotent. A citizen, it is true, may complain, make suggestions, or cause disruptions, but in the ancient world these were privileges that belonged to any slave." - Mark Mirabello
